Excuse me whilst I rant on about my dismal assessment of todays Church. Someone once told me I better be careful when speaking of Christ's Bride....so maybe I should say what I am really trying to understand here, is how is the institution of the church carrying its brothers and sisters burdens?
Maybe the problem, is we depend too much on that aspect of the church that seems, well..institutionalized.
Taking a break form church, and even the Bible (I'll call it FASTING)....due to toxic religion I became infected with.....really aided me in being able to just sit, examine myself.....and observe. Observe the world. Observe people. Observe myself. And meditate on such things.
Right now, my husband is on like his 40th leg of overcoming an issue in his life. He has climbed, fell down, climbed, fell down.......and so on, and so on. People get tired of others falling down so much. Its a nuisance, its dirty, and well, sometimes when you try to pick them up....it hurts, and breaks your back a little, too. Ive often encountered people who pick others up. Then the hurting soul is left to wobble. Or, sometimes a guide will stand close by to help that person when they begin to wobble, or get topsy-turvy. Once, in my husbands life, he had a man do this for like 6 months, DAILY. What a sacrifice that man made. I am not saying others who give portions of help arent really fulfilling their christian duty....sometimes there are seasons for people, or reasons higher than understanding...as to why someone cannot help. Understood. But in general, I see so many 'programs' and 'classes' at church. Do they truly help people? In my life, or at least my geographical location, I have not seen programs to be such a great help in carry one anothers burdens.
I recently began attending a Moravian church up the road from me. It is everything i was originally taught (in my Old Life ....aka..toxic religion) is essentially as close to heathen as Judas. Woman preacher, contemporary music, fundraisers, one service a week....blah blah blah. I end up loving the community. Wow. Ive missed out on so much...and what Big Arms God has. I really dont care so much about the this-n-thats of their doctrine, cqause Ive never met any two people in thw world who share the same tedious doctrine anyway. I just go, sing, listen, sit, and sing some more. The only new question I have for any assembly of believers to see if their *institution* will be worthy to me, or I to it....is this: Does it draw me close to God, and keep doing so? Yeah, thats my only prenuptual agreement. Im easy. Well, Im easy NOW.
So, I told myself....no bible studies. No offerings. No commitments. No membership. Im not even reading their doctrine. I dont care. I really dont. I am just going to sit still, and breathe it all in. So far, my breathing is going beautifully well. Its refreshing. *I* am being refreshed. Cleansed. Healed. Healed, and doing nothing. What a concept.
Ok. I lied. There is another prerequisite. Do they tangibly help people? Do they care? Do they seek to touch others lives in a very REAL way? Do they love AS they love themselves, or just a little bit lower than themselves? Do they hold 3 bible studies a week, but not know how to hold someone accountable? Do they hold the business meeting in a timely, orderly fashion, but dont know how to help the porn addict? Do they serve the luncheons effortlessly, but not know how to invite and become intimate with other human beings? Do they work the nursery faithfully, but not know how to suffer with those who suffer?
I feel like I sound cruel. And Judgmental. Maybe I am. It just bothers me that I dont see so much 'sticking necks out for each other' as I do attendance for the latest and greatest bible/book study.
Maybe my husband needed to be abandoned. Maybe he needs to be alone for awhile, I dont know. I just know that it is sad when I see so many oppressed, broken, wounded, hurting people who have NO ONE coming alongside them. Today in church, as many other weeks, I hear the prayer requests of every illness, virus, cancer, and blow of the nose out there. No one requested prayer for emotional issues. Behavioral issues. Loneliness. Lostness. Damaged self-worth. A bad relationship. NOTHING. Im not minimizing sickness. I just would hope to hear someones true inner pain. The pain in the heart....crying out for that person to 'come alongside.....'.
So, Im not joining any groups. I find there is way too much overhead and leading...and I lose my authentic callings from God. Too many assigned things to do at church., leaves me no room for the spontaneous trials that God so readily brings to my life. So, I help people as they cross my path. I try my best to be open. Im sure, somehwere, out there, someone has gripes against me not helping them, not being there. Ive failed. I really have. Im still failing. I just want it to get better. So....money......its going stright to the people I think who need it. That *is* my offering. I listen to people. I help them with things. I have friends who are Christian and who arent...I have aquaintances who are and who arent. So I figure Im reaching out to the world, and still serving The Church.
This post is all over the place. Ill just close with, its great to have gotten to somewhat of a place where I just want to be there for people. Even if gthey are not there for me. Its ok. But I wont waste any more time in activities that dont directly and tangibly help people with their most needy needs. Isnt that why God came here?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
16 comments:
Hello AM,
I just wanted you to know that I can relate! I have felt the same feelings you describe here. I check your blog frequently, and I love the way you write from your heart. I am looking for a church where the agenda is not all business, but rather in shaping people to be genuine. To REALLY have a desire to help people, and to REALLY help people. I can't put it into words right now, but I know what you are saying.
Hi Cheri.......thanks for the compliment! Beings hardly anyone posts here, I need it! Hahahaha!
Yes, I think I would like to be involved where we can directly help people, and receive help when needed. So many programs available, yet seems like people still feel alone, and like they arent growing, or receiving help they need. For now, I just try helping who I can...I cant change the world or the system, I can only change myself. So for now, thats what I am doing....I am hoping this new church Ive been attending is given to hospitality, as it seems like it is!
AM,
I soooo feel your post right now! Thanks, its a blessing.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I think you're a very brave person, and I love that you are examining anew everything you've learned and held as true before.
Isn't love and helping people at the core of Christianity? I mean, I'm not a Christian, but it seems to me that a lot of modern fundamentalist thought is very accusing - How dare you not home school? How dare you not condemn gay people, Mormons, insert group of people we don't agree with? How dare you use birth control?
I don't know, but that seems confused. Didn't Jesus just command everyone to love each other?
You seem to have a handle on this, and I admire it. :)
CiVilla,
I am not offended, and now see, after re-reading my post....how it comes off. NOT my intention. I also did not lay the foundation well contextually.
What I *could* have said was that I see a lot of talking to people about how they should be living, but not a lot of *practical* help or sacrifical love in doing so. So many various bible studies, church activities, etc but so few really being helped in a life changing way. And YES, that also puts a lot of bearing on the individual who says they *want* the help.
I agree with almost all you said, so i really think I did not express myself well (nothing new there!)
I do not agree the pastor and his wife and family should incessantly be burdened with members problems. The bible seems clear that we are to carry each others burdens, but also need to be able to carry our own. My post was focusing more on the first part of that sentence, your post focused more on the latter part. I think balance is necessary, and great wisdom and discernment is neededAny not everybody is suited to help someone, nor is it the perfect will that it happens. So yes, I think we should proceed cautiously. That sounds like what youa re saying too. I belie ve that a pastor seems to get a lot dumped on him, when all that he really has is a differing spiritual gift than another. We all, congregationally, play a part in holding the gifts needed to help one another, NOT just the pastor. So I really feel for you there. I am sure you learned a lot through that experience, things I dont or maybe wont ever understand-so I certaintly dont claim to know it all.
The people that you allowed to be your housemates definitely sound liek they expected everyone else to do the work they needed to do for themselves. Often we dont find out peoples intentions until we are already submerged in helping them. Difficult situations.
I suppose the best way I can see help is needed for addicts, is that they need people to hold them accountable. My husband has now chosen to attend AA and get a sponsor...but then people at church complain that that is secular. Yet, those same people arent willing to stick out their necks for a person climbing out of addiction. I just get fumed that they want to play 'director', but not offer help. Even a listening ear. There is SA for porn addictions, too.
You know Civilla, I suppsoe I cant grasp exaclty what help is needed except someone to listen, someone to hold acountable, someone to help mature people, someone to bounce things off of. I DO know an addicted person MUST do much of the work themselves. And Ia gree that many churches offer support groups trying to help, but little help is offered because they arent counselors....they really dont know what to do. Thats fine. If you dont know what to do, say so. Dont pacify the congregation though by making up another support group. I think it would be great, perhaps, if churches bridged with good rehabs and rescue missions in finding out how they run, what they do for the addict, and asking those rehabs HOW a church can help an addict. Then those who feel led to help, do, and those who dont (and there will be many who dont feel led to help, and thats ok), dont. I dont think this goes for just addictions. What I grasp from the bible is that all of us have healing measures in the form of spiritual gifts inside our being, and I too need to be challenged to use those.
I didnt realize that the main purpose of the church was to win people to Christ. I thought it was to edify the believers, and make disciples of each other (mature people). I guess i see the spiritual gifts the church offers more of a wheel diagram, than a hierarchy. I am never 100% sold on any one way to view it though, so I am open to seeing I am wrong. But so far this is how I see it.
I love learning how people think and being open to realizing that there may be things you have said that I didnt realize or know. Thank you for posting; I too want to learn how to better help people.
This is a good conversation!
My husband and I have never been against AA or those programs. Those people are trained to help alcoholics. At that same church I mentioned, we had a young lady who went to AA. Other people in the church were telling her to quit because it was not spiritual. One couple did have this young lady move in with them, ok, but they were not trained to help in this area. So, my husband and I were considered unspiritual even though we were the pastors, because we thought she should be in AA because they were trained to help.
Yes, I think it is better to admit that you are not trained in a certain area, than just to have some half-baked program that you have to twist peoples' arms to run and that doesn't really help -- just takes everybody away from their homes and families one more night out of the week.
Yes, the church's main job is to preach the Gospel. It was Jesus main mission (The Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which was lost). The Church is Christ's bride. Revelation 22:17 says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come...". The Spirit is the Holy Spirit, of course, and the bride is the church. The bride says "Come" along with the Spirit, Come to Christ!
After that, the job of the church is to equip the saints for ministry by teaching them the Word.
After that, God prepares good works for us to walk in.
The job of the pastor is to preach the Gospel and to teach the Bible to equip the saints. That must always be first and foremost.
A pastor cannot neglect the preaching of the Word to "wait on tables" (Acts 6:1-2, "And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians agains the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, "It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.")
For a pastor to neglect prayer and Bible study and preparinig good sermons to "serve tables" (programs which are good in and of themselves) is not right. God calls others to do these things: head up programs to feed people; anti-abortion work; counseling; children's work; women's ministries; halfway houses; home/family ministries; women's shelters, etc., etc., etc.
A pastor can give his approval of these things, perhaps let some people from those ministries speak occasionally to the church, encourage church members to support these things if they feel led.
Unfortunately, many people who are involved in these things, and also para-church ministries, want every pastor to "get behind" them, and bully their church members to get involved in whatever particular work these people are involved in.
Every church has several people, or perhaps many people, who are involved in some sort of ministry that God has called them to, or in some para-church work, all of them wondering why the pastor doesn't leave off his teaching and preaching of the Word to promote THEM and bully the church people into helping THEM. It gets crazy.
I hate to see churches where the main focus is programs. You're right -- they are usually half-baked and do very little in the way of helping anybody, because, like I said, the pastor/church people are not professionals, and many of these people need professional help.
People today feel like a pastor must be a counsellor/nurses'aide/daycare worker/social worker/criminal justice professional/recreational director/teen challenge leader/homeschool advocate/para-church slave/dispenser of religions mumbo-jumbo to punch peoples' tickets to heaven, etc., etc., all without professional training -- just a couple of years of Bible college. Can't happen. Everything will end up half-baked.
And the sermons will be crummy.
I think people need to be realistic. Yes, we learned a lot of lessons at that first church. We learned that we can't fix people who really need professional help or who don't really want help.
My husband, for the last 13 years since we left that church, has concentrated on what he should be concentrating on: praying for people and studying the Word of God, and preparing good exegetical sermons from the Bible -- book by book, chapter by chapter and verse by verse.
Oh yes, AM, the couple we had live with us, after all we did for them, they sent their tithe money to Benny Hinn!!!!! (Although she did do the janitorial work at the church, for which we were truly thankful.)
Yes, this is good conversation. Glad you didn't take offense. I didn't take offense at you either.
Hi again! I just read the converstaion going on here, and wanted to clarify what I posted.
I once went to a church that exceeded all of my expectations. The building was in shambles, the pastor would give the clothes off his back for anyone, and the people were so humble and giving and non-judgemental, and genuine. The fruit of the church was ripe and sweet. The only thing on this church's heart was to reach out to the unbelievers. I never felt or saw anyone with a "what can the church do for me" attitude. It was all about shaping people to live for christ, and help others. This church ruined me for what I have found in my new town.
(been here over 6 years now) All I can find are materialistic churches. The people try to out-do one another with their houses, cars, clothes, kids activities, etc. A spirit of selfishness and pride comes across loud and clear. I am sure there are some humble people among them, but I know I am weak, and fear that the pride and selfishness will rub off on me. It may be wrong to think this, but I often wonder if the people are truly born again, because if they were, how could they only be out for themselves?? Maybe because they are led this way by the pastor?? The buildings are better than the local school buildings.
I just want a church that is real, and humble. I don't care if it meets in a tent. The only thing that I NEED from a church is good instruction. I am still having a hard time expressing what my heart feels. I know I must sound arrogant in judging the big churches. I just see them as more of a business than in making and maturing disciples to go out into the world and reach the unbelievers. I am still praying that a true church will pop up in my area, and in the meantime a bible study with like minded people is serving us well.
Civilla, you sound like the kind of person I want to be. Thank you for sharing your stories, and reaching out only to be spat on! You are planting seeds in the hearts of these people. The seed may not take root for years, but it will someday.
AM, thanks for allowing my rant!
Oh, Cheri, when my husband and I were first saved, we attended a wonderful church like that. The pastor had such a heart for people -- loaned us his car one week, even though it was their only vehicle.
Unfortunately, people wouldn't come to the church because the building was crummy, etc. So sad.
I don't like those churches either that are snobby. I think it is a two-fold problem: an unworthy clergy coupled with a complacent laity. Then you have problems. Probably none of them are saved.
The first one I mentioned had a crummy building, no money, the pastor and his wife had to work, the parsonage was crummy, but everyone had such a heart. There were no "programs" though, and most people demand programs, especially for their children. All this church had was a Sunday School.
There are sure all kinds of churches out there. We went for a year between churches, last year, and it was hard finding a place to fellowship.
Oh, I hear you both.
I too, had the blessing of a msall little church like that! You were family there, and isnt the the whole point? Everyone watched each others children...there were no 'programs' or 'sign up sheets', because everyone just naturally helped one another. The pastor had 5 children and made 28,000 a year. They lived in a modest home which was the site for many meetings, dinners, etc. Cars were shared all the time....vacations were shared.
The only bad thing there was the rigid way of life that I ended up getting sucked into a legalistic system. Sounds so opposite of what I just stated, but true. It doesnt nullify the hospitality they show,and im sure continue to show. After 6 years, *still* get invited to Mother Teas and things there. I do love them!
Churches where I live are mostly big buildings and larger congregations. Programs, and more programs, but no real help. I think people can really sometimes hide (if they want to) in the settings I have seen like this. Granted, those might have hidden anyway. I like being genuine and transparent, and vulnerable with the church body. I like intimate relationships. Again, isnt that the point? Fellowship is so necessary, and I dont mean playing softball together. LOL.
Yes, I agree, people can hide in these big mega-churches. For some people, that is exactly what they want. Also, people who have been abused in cult-like churches, or actual cults, want something impersonal where they won't be bothered, and I can't blame them for that.
We pastor small rural churches, and people will try to hide from the pastor, too. After you are in a church for 10 years, though, as we were in our last one, it finally comes out. Most people try to outlast the pastor and hope he won't find out about the hurts and losses, and if the pastor moves on after 2 or 3 years, they are safe. But, we stayed a long time. It is so sad that we try to hide, but I guess people are embarrassed. I don't necessarily want people seeing my "skeletons" either!
Group-grope doesn't go over well here in the rural areas, because everybody is related and/or has lived together or went to school together all of their lives.
The last thing people would want to do is get in a circle and start talking about their marital problems, because you'd be telling your cousin or sister, and it would get back to mom and dad!! Very little anonymity in a small town.
I think people who go to large churches sometimes want that anonymity, and maybe they need it, I don't know.
And, AM, like you said, most of these programs are not very helpful, because many people really need professional help and the pastors/church members are not trained in that.
We used to live in New Hampshire. In that state, no pastor or anybody else in the church was permitted by law to counsel unless they had a degree in counseling. Maybe that is for the best.
Pastors need to keep the Word of God, teaching and prayer on the "pedestal" like the Apostles did in the Book of Acts, and leave the "waiting tables" to other Christians who are called to that, and the real counseling, etc., to trained professionals.
Sometimes, however, people will respond to prayer. That's always good.
Ok, this is interesting, Civilla. I was doing some AA readings tonight....taking what I like and leaving the rest, but this stood out to me, regarding our earlier discussion here in this thread. I copied it from a blog that showed up in my google search...:
***For those of you who have followed this blog from its inception, you know that I have not been at all committed to the entire concept of an AA blog. I initially started it so that I could discuss AA matters without anonymity concerns with a fellow blogger who is also in AA. I thought it would be nice to post stories, etc. Or not. I don't know. I am on the fence about this whole thing.
Recently I have had comments from people who don't want to be in AA. I guess I am supposed to have hurt feelings and try to chase them down and convince them that AA is the only way for their salvation. I am reminded of what I heard when I was new... "AA isn't for those who need it, it is for those who want it."
I can only share my experience, strength, and hope. My story is that AA saved my life and indeed gave me everything that is worthwhile in my life. Period. That's my story. There is not anything to argue with there.
Our literature (specifically, the big book, Alcoholics Anonymous) says:
"If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!" (p. 31)
Further in the book, it admonishes members:
"We find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone, he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself. To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy." (p. 96)
***
Hmmmm....interesting! Letting a person go who really, apparently, at closer look doesnt want the help, so that we dont end up "denying" that same help and energy to others who DO want it.
I like, I like.
Perhaps, Civilla, this is sound 'doctrine' for those like the couple in your story, who cried poverty and then complained they werent helped enough.
I am not saying I am an AA fanatic; I am not. I just like to research and draw parallels between the principles in the bible and with other types of 'help' out there, whether it be physchology, AA, or other spiritual helps. It really has aided in healing mke to bridge them all together and find the common denominators, if you will, between them all.
I really like the way AA states that. Apparently it can be found in their Big Book.
That was interesting, AM. Yes, those kind of people who don't really want help will suck up all of your time so that you don't have time for others. We learned a big lesson from that experience. It was our first church. I think people like that are "tares." You don't necessarily want to get rid of them, but you can't let them control your and others' lives. Anyway, the woman passed away several years ago. Very sad. I hope she is at peace.
Ha! I have to type in "mixicare" to get this to work. I guess you have to give mixed kinds of care to mixed kinds of people!
Post a Comment